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Was it right for Dr. Sproul to have RC Sproul Jr speak at the Ligonier Conference? | No | | 66% | [ 6 ] | Yes | | 33% | [ 3 ] | | Total Votes : 9 |
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Lin
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 4
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry Guys, But he was defrocked sometime in Jan and in March he is teaching on a stage to pastors in a conference sponsored by his father. Are you saying we have no right to question the validity of that?
David if you know for a fact some things that I have posted are wrong please enlighten me and I will happily admit my fault. That is part of the problem. We are only hearing the side of the Judgement put out by the presbytery. How have we gone way beyond what formally took place? Can you elaborate?
Voice, I am afraid I cannot reply to the silliness of his being able teaching his own wife and kids. I think that is a bit of a stretch but meant to sideline the topic at hand. But I do understand the spirit in which it was written and admire you for your defense of someone you obviously love very much.
Think on the verse below...The Holy Spirit makes pastors/elders overseers of the church that Christ bought with His Blood.
Jr. mislead his flock in many ways and broke the law using another churches TAX ID number without their permission. This was not just some mistake or accident.
Check out ACTS: 26Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you, 27for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God,[c] which he obtained with his own blood.[d] 29I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears. 32And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 33I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel.
Please remember, this all started because some of us questioned the decision to let him teach at a pastors conference (or pre-conference) so soon after all this came about.
This will have to be my last post on this subject. Unity is not always a good thing. I am real big on the Priesthood of the Believers and that is certainly part of where I am coming from on this issue. I believe we must hold our leaders accountable while at the same time submitting to them, praying for them and of course we must know our scripture to make sure we are not being led off a cliff with them. | |
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david
Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 757 Location: North Dakota
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| The discussion going on here has nothing to do with "holding our leaders accountable" since Sproul Jr. is not one of our leaders.
I can't point out who is right or wrong, and I have no interest in doing so. I don't know all the facts of the matter, so I am not qualified to make any judgments about it. If I never do learn the details about it, Then I will never even have a right to an opinion. I'm not going to pontificate based on partial information. To do so is extremely foolish.
If I wanted to know, I sure wouldn't come here to read gossip, I would go to the source. And I would have no expectation that either side would tell me anything, because I am not a member of their church or denomination. I don't expect to be privy to their business.
Also, I'm mature enough to wait to see what kind of information is made public by the parties involved, rather than demand to know right now or I'll hold my breath and bang my head on the floor. _________________ David
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) | |
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Joel Token Papist
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 752 Location: Moses Lake, WA
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| On the whole, I have to agree with David, since I know even less about it. But I'd be curious what the other folks' opinion would be of Jr. if this incident for which he was defrocked hadn't taken place. Had he up to then impressed you as a good, Godly teacher? _________________ -- Joel B. Martin jbmartin@nwi.net "Suffer me that I may speak, and after that I have spoken, mock on." Job xxi, 3 | |
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voiceofthesheep
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Georgia
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Lin, Since you apparantly are not willing to hang around and discuss your comments, I will not take the time to respond to them.
All I will say, though, is...please, when you have at least two paths to take in how you talk about someone else when a situation like this comes up...it is always better to err on the side of caution, restraint, and respect. For, if time proves that you were too cautious, too restrained, and too respectful...you can always become more hardline in your stance. But, if you start out going over the edge with your judgments, it is very difficult to cross back over that line and undue what you have already been done, especially if some or all of what you have taken such a hard stance on is, down the road, proven to be not as serious as once portrayed (I am not syaing that is the case here, but as a possible example).
Just one speaking from experience. _________________ "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. —C. H. Spurgeon | |
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Frank Vance
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 10
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: Ignorance Is Bliss |
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| david wrote: | Does anyone involved in this discussion know the whole story? If not, I suggest that you are not entitled to much of an opinion on it. I see some strong opinions on things that might or might not be true. I would be very fearful of spouting off about a brother without full knowledge of the situation. Gossip is not becoming, or acceptable, and you will give an account for all of your idle words. . . Right or wrong, I would hate to be in your place - short on facts and long on mouth. | . Now that sounds real judgmental, David. I wouldn't deny that you are clearly a man who is "short on facts and long on mouth," but that doesn't give you any right to project your ignorance onto others. And yours, David, appears to be a willful ignorance.
I've done a lot more than apparently you have, David. I've thoroughly read the public RC Sproul Jr defrocking documents. It seems to me that what you're doing, David, is to violate the 9th commandment by accusing Lin, and probably me as well, of being gossips. Before making such allegations maybe you should familiarize yourself with the definition of gossip. Our discussion here doesn't even begin to touch on anything that is of a private or confidential nature. It's all public information, concerning a very public person, of a very public incident, which is corroborated by public documents. By definition we're not gossiping, David. But I would agree that it would be best for you to not make any comments, since of your own admission you're ignorant of the facts. If you were to comment it would just be ignorant speculation, and that could lead to gossip, and God will certainly hold you accountable for every idle word.
david wrote: | The discussion going on here has nothing to do with "holding our leaders accountable" since Sproul Jr. is not one of our leaders. |
David, RC Sproul Jr may not have had any direct influence as a "leader" in your family, or in your home school group, or in your church. If you've never read any of his books, or gone to hear him speak at a conference, or he's never spoken in your church. then again, you should probably just not make any comments here because it doesn't concern you anyway. If it doesn't concern you, and if you haven't even bothered to familiarize yourself by reading the public documents, then your comments might be easily construed as gossip. However, I can assure you that RC Sproul Jr has had widespread leadership influence in many other families, especially home school familes, and even entire churches. His speaking itinerary is evidence of that, so please don't deny the obvious. RC Sproul Jr is a leader, and for years he's been a very influential and a very public leader, and he continues to try to exercise his "leadership" even though he's been defrocked.
Highlands Study Center web site wrote: | "R.C. is associate pastor of teaching of Saint Peter Presbyterian Church, and Founder, Chairman and Teacher of the Highlands Study Center. He has written or edited nine books, and contributed to several others. He once wrote for World magazine, and for the Covenant Syndicate. . . At the Highlands Study Center, R.C. teaches the Tuesday Night Bible study for the community, most of the Highlands Academy classes, the resident students, and serves as executive editor of Every Thought Captive. When not busy teaching, or playing with the children, he is making homebrew." |
Not only has RC Sproul Jr been a "leader," he's still pawning himself off as a "pastor" even though he's been defrocked.
Quote: | I don't know all the facts of the matter, so I am not qualified to make any judgments about it. If I never do learn the details about it, Then I will never even have a right to an opinion. I'm not going to pontificate based on partial information. To do so is extremely foolish. |
For a guy who's concerned about not pontificating, and that you're "not qualified to make any judgments," you've been doing a lot of pontificating and judging anyway.
Quote: | If I wanted to know I sure wouldn't come here to read gossip |
So apparently what you're saying is: 1. I don't want to know (ignorance is bliss) 2. I don't think anyone else should know either. 3. Anyone who does know shouldn't be entitled to have an opinions about it, or at least any opinions which are less than favorable of RC Sproul Jr. If anyone says anything negative about RC Sproul Jr we'll accuse them of being a "gossip."
Quote: | I would go to the source. And I would have no expectation that either side would tell me anything, because I am not a member of their church or denomination. I don't expect to be privy to their business. |
I don't share your ignorance is bliss sentiment. RC Sproul Jr is my business, and he's the business of the tens of thousands of Christian families and hundreds of churches and home school groups that he's had a direct leadership influence on. Unlike you, David, because I don't relish the prospect of being ignorant, I do have an expectation that both sides tell me something, in fact everything. And thankfully they already have.
Quote: | Also, I'm mature enough to wait to see what kind of information is made public by the parties involved, rather than demand to know right now or I'll hold my breath and bang my head on the floor. |
I'm not advocating you hold your breath and bang your head on the floor, David. I'm just advocating that you open your eyes. Stop living in denial. The "information is made public," past-tense, and it happened almost two months ago.
David, you're the best proof yet that there are folks here who, to quote Paige Duncan, want to "sweep this whole thing under the rug." | |
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david
Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 757 Location: North Dakota
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Frank, you've done a good job of misrepresenting everything I've said.
Let's see if you can do some simple math.
a + b = c
a = known facts about the Sproul Jr. controversy b = facts not yet known about the Sproul Jr. controversy c = appropriate judgement for or against Sproul Jr.
You want to arrive at c without first solving b. It is that simple. You get an F in elementary arithmatic.
When this whole thing is over (it is not yet), and the dust has settled, b will most likely become a known quantity. I am content to wait until then. In fact, I have no choice but to wait. Premature speculation is profitless, and puts you at risk of being guilty of slander. _________________ David
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) | |
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vesselsofmercy
Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 52
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Whatever the specifics of what Sproul Jr. did, I don't know, but I think what's being overlooked here is that the church where he ministers did a congregational vote and overwhelmingly agreed to keep him on as pastor. At least that's what I understand, and if that's not true I do apologize.
I would be inclined to be satisfied with congregational decisions, being a Baptist. In fact, all this makes me all the more glad I am a Baptist and not a Presby.
Now before you Pres'bians get in a rage, let me say also that I can't begin to tell you how much I enjoy blogging with you guys, and it does break my heart to a degree to see good calvinists going at each other like this.
In any case, give this some time before coming to drastic judgements, both for the truth's sake and for RC Jr's sake. _________________ J.D. | |
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Frank Vance
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 10
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| david wrote: | You get an F in elementary arithmatic. |
Thank you David. And you get an A+ for subterfuge.
Quote: | When this whole thing is over (it is not yet), and the dust has settled, b will most likely become a known quantity. |
Now here is a great mystery. David represents that he knows little to nothing about the RC Sproul Jr defrocking case: ". . .so I am not qualified to make any judgments about it." Yet all he's done is make judgments and proclamations about it, and condemn anyone as a "gossip" and now a "slanderer" who won't keep silence. David now even claims to know that "this whole thing" isn't "over yet." How could he know that? How can he be both ignorant and knowledgeable at the same time? Has the RPCGA revealed something to him that they haven't told anyone else? Is the RPCGA planning on overturning their own judgment?
David, you speak as though there's another chapter to this book. But there isn't another chapter. The RPCGA defrocked RC Sproul Jr. End of story. And this isn't a nice litte fairy tale "And they lived happily ever after" story. This story has a very sad and tragic ending.
Quote: | I am content to wait until then. In fact, I have no choice but to wait. Premature speculation is profitless, and puts you at risk of being guilty of slander. |
I'm at risk of no such thing. My knowledge and my comments are based upon public information -- specifically the Declaratory Judgment of the RPCGA. Your opinions on the matter appear to be based upon mere speculation about unsubstantiated rumors. Isn't that the very basis of gossip? | |
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Frank Vance
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 10
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| vesselsofmercy wrote: | Whatever the specifics of what Sproul Jr. did, I don't know, but I think what's being overlooked here is that the church where he ministers did a congregational vote and overwhelmingly agreed to keep him on as pastor. At least that's what I understand, and if that's not true I do apologize. |
No apology necessary vessel. You're quite right. And you're only making my point. RC Sproul Jr is an autonomist in rebellion to the church authority that ordained him and later defrocked him. When he got the boot from the denomination that ordained him, he then turned to his own congregation to seek legitimacy of his rule from them. No man is recognized as a ruler or a leader without some type of imprimatur. Before, RC Sproul Jr was a Presbyterian, and very proud of being a Presbyterian. He disdained congregationalism, but now he appears quite comfortable with congregationalism.
Quote: | In any case, give this some time before coming to drastic judgements, both for the truth's sake and for RC Jr's sake. |
I haven't made any judgments against RC Sproul Jr. That was for the RPCGA, and they made it. That IS the truth, and for truth's sake I think it only appropriate to now discuss what is to be done about RC Sproul Jr, a man who was defrocked, yet he continues masquerading as a pastor and a Bible teacher. And there are Reformed people here, and even some Presbyterians, who aren't even offended by that? Odd. And the fact of the matter is, vessel, that even Baptists have the good sense to know what to do about it when a Baptist minister is defrocked. | |
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david
Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 757 Location: North Dakota
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Evidently, your reading skills are as poor as you math skills.
I didn't say I know "little to nothing" about it. I said I don't know all the facts, so I'm not qualified to draw a conclusion.
I also have not said anyone should "keep silence." I have said they should not draw conclusions based on incomplete information.
Quote: | The RPCGA defrocked RC Sproul Jr. End of story. |
Not so:
RPCGA Judgment Against Sproul Jr. And Elders (the link you already supplied) Sproul Jr.'s and Elder's Repentance RPCGA Response
I don't believe even this is the end of the story. _________________ David
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) | |
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voiceofthesheep
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Georgia
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The more I read the judgment the more convinced I am that the main issue for this action was the paedo-communion issue. It defintiely gets the most ink in the declaration.
It appears that paedo-communion was one of the main issues surrounding the Austin family situation at the church.
Why in the world would the RPCGA admit a church that advocates paedo-communion when they knew going in what Sproul Jr's position was?
I noticed in the judgment that St. Peter Church requested to be removed from the RPCGA denomination because of the differences over communion.
Why did the RPCGA denomination wait THREE YEARS before taking action on the mission churches that were setup by St. Peter Church as discussed in the judgment?
As I was typing out this post, I skimmed through the entire judgment again, and the overarching topic throughout the document appears to be this issue of paedo (infant)-communion...allowing children to partake in the Lord's Supper.
I would ask those reading this to read through the declaration a few times and see if you do not see a common thread throughout the judgment. I am not saying it is the only issue, but it certainly gets the most attention.
I conclude that the RPCGA could have possibly avoided this whole mess had they NOT admitted St. Peter into their denomination knowing all along what their view of paedo-communion was. I am not laying the whole blame on them, but I think they should bear some responsibility. _________________ "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. —C. H. Spurgeon | |
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Frank Vance
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 10
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: RC Sproul Jr defrocked for duplicity |
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| voiceofthesheep wrote: | The more I read the judgment the more convinced I am that the main issue for this action was the paedo-communion issue. It defintiely gets the most ink in the declaration. |
So "most ink" equals "main issue"? So based upon that logic, what would you say would be the "main issue" of the Bible? Did you know that the subject of money has a lot more ink devoted to it in the Bible than the subject of faith? Is money more important than faith?
Paedocommunion was the main issue? No, not hardly. The main issue was a pattern of duplicity, and RC Sproul Jr's practice of paedocommunion, in defiance of his Presbytery's rules, is just one of a number of issues that proved his duplicitous nature:
RPCGA Declaratory Judgment wrote: | "The consistent pattern of actions taken by these men are duplicitous in nature, and demonstrate that they willingly and knowingly act in an arbitrary fashion in violation of their vows of ordination and in violation of our denomination’s Book of Church Order. Most importantly, their actions manifest that they lack the qualification for the ministry (1Timothy 3:1-7). It would be unwise to allow these men to continue to hold an office for which they are not qualified." |
Don't overlook the fact that RC Sproul Jr stole the tax ID number of another denomination. That's a criminal act.
Oh, and David, if what you mean by "I don't believe even this is the end of the story" is that RC Sproul Jr could wind up getting criminally indicted and going to jail, then I'd be in agreement with you. | |
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voiceofthesheep
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Georgia
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | So "most ink" equals "main issue"? So based upon that logic, what would you say would be the "main issue" of the Bible? Did you know that the subject of money has a lot more ink devoted to it in the Bible than the subject of faith? Is money more important than faith? |
Sorry, Frank, I failed to fully explain myself..and that seems to be a dangerous thing to do around you. I did not mean to imply that the sheer number of words devoted to the issue of paedo-communion means that it was the main issue. What I meant was, it seems to be one of the issues at the heart of the situation with the Austins, it obviously IS a main issue with respect to the RPCGA declaration, and it also seems to have been an issue even before St. Peter Church was allowed to join the denomination.
With respect to your statement that more ink is devoted to money than faith in the Bible...PROVE IT. Do you know this for a fact...or are you basing your belief off of what you read somewhere? I'm not saying you are wrong, I would just like to know where you got that information. It appears to me that faith is one of the underlying and overarching themes from Genesis to Revelation, so I find it hard to see how money gets more "ink" than faith (of course, it would depend on your definition of "ink" with repect to these two subjects in the Bible).
I am curious... do you, Frank, believe that we need to treat Sproul Jr. as an unbeliever? _________________ "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. —C. H. Spurgeon | |
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Frank Vance
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 10
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: So what's the point of ordination? |
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| Voice, I've got no intention of going off on rabbit trails with you or anyone else here. The money vs. faith argument wasn't the issue. You were the one that raised the argument that "quantity of ink equals main issue," or at least that's what your argument appeared to be My assertion is that's usually false logic. Thank you for now correcting yourself.
voiceofthesheep wrote: | I am curious... do you, Frank, believe that we need to treat Sproul Jr. as an unbeliever? |
I do not. My assumption is that he is a believer, and should be treated accordingly, and should be held accountable accordingly. Sproul Jr wasn't excommunicated. He was defrocked. He needs to be treated accordingly, and held accountable accordingly. He continues preaching and teaching as though nothing at all had happened to him on January 26, 2006. So what was the point in his original ordination if having it stripped from him doesn't change anything? | |
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voiceofthesheep
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Georgia
| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The money vs. faith argument wasn't the issue. You were the one that raised the argument that "quantity of ink equals main issue," or at least that's what your argument appeared to be My assertion is that's usually false logic. Thank you for now correcting yourself. |
Frank, I must say that you come across as pretty contentious. I did NOT correct myself, I clarified my earlier comments. Though, I know it makes you look better to say that I corrected myself. The money/faith example was yours - I didn't come up with that - and all I was doing was asking where you got it, as you were using it to make your point.
You seem to be happy enough to go down other trails in previous posts in discussing the ignorance or others, etc., etc. Why won't you at least tell us where you are getting your information on the money/faith "ink" in the Bible. The Sproul issue is pretty much a finished one. He was defrocked... he's still teaching...many like you want him stopped...some like me want to use a little restraint in our personal judgments. Subject closed.
I think those reading this stuff would be interested to know where you get your information that the Bible talks more about money than faith. It should be easy enough to answer...and it may prove to be good discussion material until something else worth discussing comes to light on the Sproul issue. Surely you don't have anything new to say about the Sproul thing...I mean...it is pretty clear where you stand...it is pretty clear where I stand.
What do you say...can you provide the source for the money/faith comparison?
Before you go and call me contentious - or something worse - for wanting to know where you are getting your information...I am NOT saying you are wrong...I just want to know how you know what you say you know that you know...'cause I don't know...as I'm sure you will point out to me...ya know??? _________________ "The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. —C. H. Spurgeon | |
8 Comments:
I received an email from a gentleman who heads a prominent ministry. He thanked me for the fact that I'm using my name, while he ridiculed all the anonymous bloggers who he says are "slandering" RC Sproul Jr. Ironically, he then asked me to keep his identity anonymous. I'll honor the request, but needless to say it gave me quite a chuckle.
I'll repost here just a brief portion of his email and my response to him today, as it may help to clarify an issue that others may have.
> First, as is evidenced in your
> poll to approve or
> disapprove of Jr. speaking at the conference, it is
> laughable that you first
> show % responses and then only 7 votes were cast.
Did you vote? If not why not? Probably for the same reason that most people who view such posts don't vote. That link received over 4000 hits before Tim Challies took the site down. Lots of hits, few votes.
The reason only 7 out of 4000 people voted is probably because in order to vote you have to first create an account, and most people won't go through the trouble of doing that. The real story isn't how few people voted but how many people viewed the thread in a very brief timeframe.
Why are you providing a link over at challies.com to a post on your site that is almost three months old?
It appears like you are trying to generate hits to your site...or are perhaps getting bored and need to stir up the pot a little bit on your favorite subject of Sproul, Jr.
Like all other tabloid topics that come and go...this one too is dead. Keep beating it if you want, but I fear you are only making yourself look worse than you already did.
If you think Tim shut down his entire forum because of your one thread, you may have just a little too high a view of yourself when it comes to forum discussions.
-Brian Thornton
Thanks Brian for expressing your concerns. Had Tim left his forum up this wouldn't have become an issue. I'm not looking to generate hits. I'd much rather he would have gotten the hits.
Contrary to your ill-informed opinion the RC Sproul Jr scandal is not only a current and ongoing event but it's a historic event that's likely to get talked about for months to come. It's anything but over. As just one example check out these links:
With Wooly Mittens On
Many Thanks and Saint Peter
As far as Tim taking down his forum I don't really know what to think about it. Mere coincidence? Maybe. But I do find the timing of it all, and his excuses for doing so, really suspicious.
Well, I tried posting yesterday under the selection below of 'other', because I couldn't remember my login info for my Blogger account. But, As I figured, you apparently didn't approve it to be posted to your site, since I haven't seen it appear yet. So, I found my login info, and here is my post that you wouldn't post yourself:
You've got a rather high view of yourself, eh, Frank? Do you honestly think your thread on RC Jr shut down the forum over at challies.com?
Do you have nothing better to do than to post comments on an almost three month old story over at Challies?
What's the real motivation? Things dying down and getting bored? Need to stir up the controversy because it is not at a fever pitch as you would like? Needed to drum up some hits to your site, so you thought you would go over to challies and post some comments on a dead topic?
Can't you find something, or someone else to focus on? Do you have anything worth listening to that is not centered around Ligonier?
I can tell you have a passion for this subject...but, give it a rest...unless you have something new that is worth saying.
One final thought, you seem to really enjoy hacking away at others...it is sad to watch (or read, as the case may be).
My bad for not noticing that my initial post was, in fact, posted...my apologies...
No apology necessary Brian/voiceofthesheep. In fact I'm glad you goofed because I wasn't getting the connection the first time you posted. It's good to see you back. I had a lot of fun dialoguing with you over on the Challies forum before Tim took it down. So would you like to go at it again? Thus far it's not looking like much of a challenge though.
"Do you have nothing better to do than to post comments on an almost three month old story over at Challies?" What gave you the impression that I don't have anything better to do? Just how much time did you think it took me to put up this little blog and maintain it? I have a lot of other things going on in my life Brian, so don't delude yourself into believing that this is some kind of big effort for me.
Now Brian why don't you just admit that you're really galled by the fact that I reposted this particular Challies thread here? Why does it upset you so that Tim wasn't able to permanently deep-eighty-six it? Looking back over your posts are you now embarrassed by your obsequious defense of RC Sproul Jr?
If it were now a "dead topic" as you claim that it is then obviously no one would care about it, and if no one cared about it then no one would be coming here. But my blog stats are showing just the opposite. It'd be nice if lots of those visitors were coming from Challies but no, sorry, they're not. So I'll grant you that Challies readers may not care, or maybe they do care but they just haven't seen that link from there to here. But a lot of other people do care. Most of them are coming from Google and Blogger searches as well as several other blogs that I'll not name at this time. Geographically the biggest number of hits I'm getting are coming out of Florida. Interesting, don't you think?
Do come again Brian, but next time please try and bring some kind of substantive argument with you. Anything less just makes you look foolish.
BTW you should really consider changing your handle from voiceofthesheep to something like voiceofthesycophants or voiceofthebootlicks. The way you've defended RC Sproul Jr is disgusting and not at all convincing of anything but your personal devotion to the guy.
You couldn't be more wrong about the Challies Forum. The fact that you are willing to actually post without being factual or trying to at least even partially investigate the matter proves that you simply have an Axe to grind. Tim tried everything within reason to keep his forums around due to their huge popularity. If you had been around during the times that his entire website was taken down due to the spam that his forums were generating you would, perhaps, understand. In any case, I repost here a comment that I just left at challies.com in regard to your handling of this situation. Hopefully it will clear things up a bit.
As one who helped Tim moderate the forums and tried to help turn the tide against the spam he was receiving, I can tell you that it was overwhelming......unbelievably overwhelming. About the time we thought we had a good solution, it would get worse than before. I miss the forums greatly, but there was no practical way to successfully eliminate all of the horrible trash that was being thrown Tim's way in the forums. It grieves me to see that Vance would act so harshly without having all the facts. Hopefully, Tim's latest post will succeed in clearing this issue up. I have found that Tim is quite level-headed in his posts, and, even when dealing with controversial subjects or personalities tells it like it is without being defamatory or hurtful in his remarks. This has been my experience all along the way here at challies.com and I am thankful for the thoughtful way in which Tim handles things such as this. Keep up the good work, Tim. I look forward to reading your book upon its completion.
Now, if only *others* could be so level-headed, respectful, prayerful and measured in their response....Your conspiracy theory about why the forums disappeared at challies.com couldn't be more off-target.
Sincerely,
Mike Bryant
http://themindofmike.com
Thanks Mike for your comment but Tim has already set the record straight. I'm amused by how such an innocent observation on my part that Tim Challies' dumping of his forum when he did and how he did was "suspicious" could get blown out of all proportion by you into allegations of a "conspiracy theory."
In any event I've apologized to TC and we've come to terms.
Today (9-7-06) Tim Challies posted an article about me entitled Sinner In the Hands Of An Angry Blog. Funny title, but not particularly fitting, in spite of what Tim or anyone else thinks of me. Carla Rolfe (sweet lady -- I wish there were more people in the world like her) earlier today brokered a peace treaty between us. You can also find my reply to TC on his blog.
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