Frank Vance Now Hosted On ministrywatchman.com

Not long after setting up this blog, Tim Dick, the President of Ligonier Ministries, started emailing me out of the blue with his bizarre emails. As a direct result of Tim Dick's irrational behavior, this blog started to take on a life of it's own.

Just to prove how irrational Tim Dick really is, he and Ligonier Ministries decided to sue me. Among the list of their charges: I called Tim Dick a "nincompoop." The Ligonier Ministries lawsuit against me put this obscure little blog into the Orlando Sentinel and dozens of blog articles, and now even on the front page of USA Today.

It would be nice if this Ligonier Ministries debacle would just come to an end. But given Ligonier's lack of repentance, not to mention all their many lies about the lawsuit, as well as additional issues that keep coming to light of internal corruption at Ligonier, it seems that this could continue for quite some time.

This little blog of mine originated as just a place to archive a thread that I'd started on Tim Challies forum. Tim quite suddenly, and with a rather suspect explanation, took his forum offline. I didn't want to just see that thread permanently vaporized, so I created this blog and reposted it here. What started out as a nothing little blog that very few people would have ever seen suddenly received widespread media attention, all thanks to Tim "Nincompoop" Dick and his foolish lawsuit against me.

The traffic here quickly shot through the roof and I soon discovered that Blogger is somewhat limited and probably wasn't a good long-term solution. Thankfully I was recently offered a more adequate place to host these articles. That new location is ministrywatchman.com I'm excited about the opportunity of getting write alongside other like-minded writers. Ministry Watchman is a new venture and I hope it will be successful.

All my previous articles will continue to be hosted here (at least for the next fews weeks), along with the comments. However no new comments will be accepted here.

Ligonier Ministries Requires Biblical Instruction

Will It Take a Balaam's Ass To Speak Before They'll Listen?

For most of my life I've professed Christ as my Savior, and for a number of those years I've also held to Reformed theology as what I believe to be the purest expression of the Christian faith. Because of Dr. RC Sproul's own commitment to Reformed theology, and the lucidness with which he expounds the Word of God, I've for years been appreciative of his labors through Ligonier Ministries, particularly for his books and his radio ministry. I give Dr. Sproul some credit in motivating me in "renewing your mind."

Imagine my shock at discovering that Ligonier Ministries doesn't practice what it preaches. Perhaps the most obvious example of that is their recent lawsuit against me. I wouldn't think it necessary for a layman like me with no formal biblical education to have to expound the Word of God to Reformed theologians like RC Sproul, but evidently that's the case.

Christians shouldn't be suing Christians. 1 Corinthians 6:1-7 not only states that plainly, it even explains why:

1 Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life? 4 If then you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, 6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? (1 Corinthians 6:1-7)

If Ligonier Ministries as a Bible teaching ministry didn't know the Bible well enough to have figured that out before, then they've probably figured it out by now (whether or not they're willing to admit it is a different matter altogether). After the withering criticism they've come under in the past month they could've figured it out without ever reading the Bible at all. Even if Ligonier as a Bible teaching ministry had never seen 1 Corinthians 6 before, just good old common sense would've by now taught them that suing a fellow Christian isn't a smart public relations move. But even if I weren't a Christian (as some now ex post facto wish to allege in order to find some elusive biblical escape clause), or even if I were a "Muslim" as Doug Wilson has alleged, suing me would still have been an incredibly stupid move.

Prior to suing me hardly anyone had even heard of Frank Vance and his little dispute with Ligonier's President Tim Dick. Suing me has just turned my obscure little blog into front page news in the biggest newspaper in the United States. If I could afford to match Tim Dick's $230,000 salary (2004 figure, probably much higher now) I'd hire him as my PR director. Great job Tim (for me anyway -- not so good for Ligonier)!

RC Sproul's good pastor friend John MacArthur certainly seems to understand why Christians shouldn't sue Christians. In his Study Bible John MacAurthur says:

6:1 Dare. Suing another believer in a secular law court is a daring act of disobedience because of its implications related to all sin -- the displeasure of God: a matter against another....
6:4 ...the basic meaning is clear; when Christians have earthly quarrels and disputes among themselves, it is inconceivable that they would turn to those least qualified (unbelievers) to resolve the matter.
6:5,6. Shame. Such conduct as suing a fellow believer is not only a sinful shame, but a complete failure to act obediently and righteously. Christians who take fellow Christians to court suffer moral defeat and spiritual loss even before the case is heard, and they become subject to divine chastening.
6:7 why...not...accept wrong? ...Christians have no right to insist on legal recourse in a public court. It is far better to trust God's sovereign purpose in trouble and lose financially, than to be disobedient and suffer spiritually.

One of the reasons that we as Christians shouldn't "dare to go to law before the unrighteous" is because it's a lot like disrobing in front of strangers, or as others have put it, "it's like airing our dirty laundry for the whole world to see." Tim Dick and his defenders would argue that it was I who was responsible for airing Ligonier's dirty laundry by posting my articles on the internet. He'd argue that because of my blog anyone in the world could see his dirty laundry and that the Ligonier lawsuit was merely a method of pulling the dirty laundry off the line. In theory that might be true... in theory. In practice however that's completely ridiculous.

Prior to Ligonier suing me no unbeliever had any reason or inclination to go searching for my blog, and the same also applies to the vast majority of Christians. In order to search for something, anything, you first have to know that it exists. Then you have to know how to search for it. Prior to Ligonier suing me hardly any Christians knew about my dispute with Tim Dick, let alone any unbelievers. It's only because of the lawsuit that many thousands of people now know, including a lot of unbelievers who should've never found out.

I'm in no way pleased that so many unbelievers have now found out. In fact I'm very troubled by it. But there's only one reason they did find out -- the lawsuit. My blog comments brought some personal embarrassment to Tim Dick, but on an extremely limited scale. Even Tim Challies is now admitting this. However, Ligonier's lawsuit against me brought shame and reproach to the entire body of Christ and it also reinforces the preexisting biases of many unbelievers that "the church is full of hypocrites." As one "atheist (an agnostic when facing surgery)" put it:

So as you do, I had a little google. And lo, a whole can of worms came forth... and particularly slimy, wriggly ones at that, considering these are supposed to be the 'moral' people. The blogger, Vance Tribe, has issues with the financial management of Ligonier Ministries.

His criticisms are not only managerial, but spiritual and theological, and he's been unafraid of saying so on his blog. Ligonier Ministries is a massive moneymaking publishing affair largely exempt from tax and public scrutiny and it appears that in this instance, as they always do, the leeches have battened onto the credulous faithful. There's defrocked priests, nepotism, hypocrisy and greed, and bad behaviour by the bucketful if you don't mind wading through the sanctimony. Juicy.

It's a interesting story, and doubly so for bloggers, because this religious business is trying for prior restraint to stop blog criticism before it even happens. That has implications for many bloggers if it's successful. If they can do it, so can other churches, and a lot of churches have a lot to hide.

Christians shouldn't be giving atheists cause to rejoice over sin and hypocrisy in the church. Ligonier's lawsuit has brought shame and reproach upon many thousands of Christians and rather than repenting for it they've issued pubic statements full of excuses, self-justifications and more lies. Furthermore, by his actions Tim Dick has just reinforced in the minds of many the fact that he's a thin-skinned crybaby. No doubt the judge thought much the same. One of the running jokes now is that Tim Dick sued me because I called him a "nincompoop." Amazingly enough though it's not just a joke. Tim actually lists that in the lawsuit as one of the reasons he sued me!

Tim Dick is trying to make this whole thing out as a purely honorable act on his part in defending the good name of Ligonier. But anyone who's actually taken the time to read the lawsuit knows that Tim's motives were only about himself:

"8. VANCE has published several false statements about Plaintiffs on his blog including, but not limited to:"

"Plaintiffs" is plural, meaning both Tim Dick and Ligonier. Yet every single one of the thirteen alleged "false statements about Plaintiffs" are about Tim Dick, and practically all of them are only about Tim Dick, and if they refer to Ligonier at all (which is debatable) it's only by extension and the fact that Tim Dick is Ligonier's President/CEO/CFO. Tim Dick didn't act to defend Ligonier's honor. He sued me only because he's a thin-skinned crybaby who was too cheap to hire his own attorney to sue me. So he used Ligonier donor money instead to sue me.

One of the more remarkable aspects of Tim Dick's lawsuit is that he brought matters that are clearly of a religious nature before a secular court. For example:

f. VANCE's August 14, 2006 statement that "Incompetent and unqualified family members are to be found running around (or sleeping on the desk) everywhere in Ligonier, often in key positions, with little or no understanding or appreciation for the Reformed theology championed by Dr. Sproul.

j. VANCE's July 18, 2006 statement that "From everything I've heard, Tim Dick is a very corrupt man. Some have told me that based on his behavior they don't think there's any way he could be a converted Christian. To have such a man heading up an honorable Christian ministry is an embarrassment to the church of Jesus Christ."

l. VANCE's June 27, 2006 statement that "It would be one thing if Tim Dick were qualified for the position... it's self-evident that the man is as unfit to head Ligonier Ministries as is RC Sproul Jr to be a pastor."

Tim Dick alleges that those are "false statements." But no judge is just going to take Tim Dick's word for it, especially through some sneaky ex parte procedure. In order to grant Ligonier's request for a temporary injunction, and then a permanent injunction, the judge would have to first determine if my allegations were false by examining various evidence and the testimony of witnesses. Just one of many problems with doing so is the fact that the above statements touch on questions of faith and religion, and no civil judge in his right mind would get anywhere near trying to determine the veracity of religious opinions.

Judge Nelson likely knew her own jurisdictional limitations, both civil and ecclesiastical and she wasn't willing to touch this case with a ten foot pole. I don't know if Judge Nelson is a Bible believing Christian, but odds are she's not. It wouldn't surprise me if she was mystified over why a Christian ministry was bringing a religious dispute before the civil magistrate.

If nothing else this entire episode has proven to be a valuable learning experience for many other ministry leaders. If ever there was a practical example of the folly of Christians suing Christians this would be it. Unfortunately there are still some who in their pride, and their blind defense of Ligonier, won't take heed.

If there are those who remain sympathetic to Ligonier Ministries (and there are) the vast majority of them are smart enough to keep their unbiblical opinions to themselves. But there are a few noteworthy exceptions. In an article this coming week I'll give honorable mention to at least one of them.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

RC Sproul Sinning By Silence

"Could it be that too many of God's true children are sinning against God by guilty silence? When those whose eyes are opened by the touch of Christ become vocal and active God may begin to fight again on the side of truth. There are moral situations where it is immoral to say nothing and basely immoral to do nothing."
A.W. Tozer

Over a month has passed since Ligonier Ministries violated 1 Corinthians 6 with impunity and filed a lawsuit against me. In that time not one word has been publicly uttered by RC Sproul, the Founder of Ligonier and current Chairman of the Board, not to mention the official Minister for the ministry. In short, it's his ministry and he's nowhere to be heard from.

Ligonier Ministries and its senior management has come under withering criticism over this lawsuit and yet its founder hides in the home that his donors paid for, refusing to comment, refusing to provide leadership, and refusing to be held accountable.

By his month-long silence RC Sproul has sent a message -- RC Sproul appears to be in full agreement with the unbiblical and very foolish actions of his "senior management" -- Tim Dick and John Duncan. Furthermore RC Sproul appears to be in full agreement with the pathetic public statements issued by Tim Dick and Ligonier's senior management. To assume otherwise would be naive.

What was called for was thorough and unequivocal confession, contrition and repentance. Instead what we got were just more excuses, lies, cover ups, blame shifting and self-justification. As a donor-funded Bible teaching ministry Ligonier needs to do one of two things:

1. Publicly explain how its lawsuit is biblically defensible and why 1 Corinthians 6 doesn't apply to Ligonier Ministries or apply in this particular case.
2. Publicly acknowledge that Ligonier's lawsuit isn't biblically defensible, issue a public apology, and restructure Ligonier in such a way that such abuses can never happen again.
   

The public statements issued by Ligonier Ministries should have never been penned by Tim Dick and John Duncan. They should have come from RC Sproul. In the midst of such a crisis what's called for is strong principled leadership. Tim Dick has more than amply demonstrated that he is an unprincipled man. For RC Sproul to hide out in the midst of a crisis and fail to accept responsibility and exercise manly leadership only makes him look like an abdicator.

In his public statement Tim Dick "accepted responsibility" but he failed to admit any wrongdoing. At best all that Tim Dick has confessed to is that he might have "caused confusion," which is to say he doesn't think he's done anything unbiblical, unethical or sinful at all. Nor is Tim Dick willing to come to grips with the fact that he has terribly offended a large portion of Ligonier's donor base.

However the greater responsibility falls to RC Sproul, for it was he who appointed Tim Dick, a man who clearly has no professional or ministerial qualifications whatsoever. Worse yet Tim Dick has no moral and ethical qualifications. Tim Dick does need to accept responsibility for his own moral shortcomings and incompetency, but far more importantly RC Sproul must accept responsibility for appointing Tim Dick in the first place. RC Sproul must accept responsibility for the consequences to Ligonier and to the body of Christ as a whole for appointing an unprincipled nincompoop.

In the past several weeks many have asked the question, "When will RC say something? When will he issue a public statement?" Ligonier's supporters are looking to RC Sproul for leadership, but he's nowhere to be found. This only tends to confirm the suspicions that many now have that the problems at Ligonier don't just begin and end with Tim Dick.

Several prominent Reformed ministers are personal friends of RC Sproul and regularly share the podium with him at various conferences. These include John MacArthur, John Piper, Al Mohler, C.J. Mahaney, Mark Dever, and Ligon Duncan (brother to Ligonier General Manager John Duncan). I've received a number of emails from people who are mystified over the silence of these men regarding the Ligonier Ministries lawsuit. It seems that many people are having a hard time knowing what to think about the silence of these men. Many Christians look to them for leadership and from all appearances there doesn't appear to be any of that being exercised right now.

I've been asked repeatedly about that. All I can say right now is that I do find their silence at a time like this to be strange if not inexplicable. I'm reasonably confident that if it were anyone other than one of our own they'd have something to say about it. Reformed ministers find it all too tempting to criticize the failures of the leadership of Evangelicals and Charismatics and Fundamentalists. How they love to point out that "Bad theology produces bad leadership." The interesting thing about that though is that the Evangelicals and Charismatics and Fundamentalists themselves generally seem to do a reasonably good job of policing their own ranks. They're generally not afraid to hold one another accountable and, if necessary, publicly rebuke one of their own. But for some odd reason it seems that the Reformed leadership are often unwilling to hold one of their own accountable.

We can say the same of Christian publications that cater to Reformed Christians, such as World Magazine. World Magazine has yet to mention anything about RC Sproul Jr and his entire Session of Elders being defrocked. When's the last time anyone has heard of an entire Presbyterian Session of four Elders being defrocked? If that's not newsworthy for the Religion section of World Magazine then I don't know what is. If Ligonier Ministries suing me isn't newsworthy for the Religion section of World Magazine then I don't know what is. Yet once again Marvin Olasky and his "objective" editors have proven how compromised they are. They're eager to report on gay alcoholic Episcopal Bishops checking themselves into rehab, or the foolish public statements uttered by Pat Robertson, but they carefully avoid reporting on the scandalous lawsuit of a prominent Reformed minister and his ministry (and even of his son's defrocking). I'm sure it's just all a mere coincidence that that same ministry that World Magazine has turned a blind eye to also just happens to have spent many tens of thousands of dollars advertising in World.

I find it remarkable that the secular Press started contacting me just a week after Ligonier had sued me, yet the Christian Press is either too embarrassed, too intimidated or too compromised to devote one drop of ink to it. Now just this morning USA Today gave prominent mention to the Ligonier Ministries lawsuit in a front page article. Tim Dick is doing a wonderful job of making Ligonier famous. The problem is that it's the wrong kind of fame.

As for the silence of various prominent Reformed ministers, I hadn't particularly thought much about it until just this past week. My assumption was that they probably were doing something behind the scenes and that it might take some time before the rest of us knew what they'd been doing. But now that five weeks have transpired since Ligonier first sued me, and not one prominent Reformed minister has publicly challenged Ligonier over it (or for all we know even privately challenged them), despite two secular newspaper articles, dozens of blog articles and hundreds of blog comments, I have to admit that I'm growing increasingly concerned by the Reformed leadership's public silence.

Of course it could very well be that some or even all of these men have contacted RC Sproul and advised him to drop the lawsuit. But because they haven't publicly said anything we just don't know. For the sake of argument let's just assume that they all did contact RC Sproul and told him he needed to drop the lawsuit. That would've been the right thing to do, but would it have been adequate? Would that have been enough to fulfill their obligations as fellow ministers and personal friends of RC Sproul? No it would not. In addition, a rebuke of their friend and calling him to to repentance -- public repentance, is needed and also biblically mandated.

Ligonier's sins are public sins and therefore public repentance is necessary. Not only has that not occurred but through Ligonier's "senior management" we've heard nothing but excuses and more lies. RC Sproul isn't ignorant of what's been going on for the past month, and by permitting it to go on for so long, and by doing nothing to put a stop to it (at least that anyone can see) he's complicit in Ligonier's sins. That calls for public repentance and it calls for those closest to RC Sproul to call him to public repentance.

Again, it could very well be that some or all of those Reformed ministers have called RC Sproul to repentance (Matt 18:15-17). But if they have isn't it now more than obvious that he hasn't publicly repented? What are they to do now? Are they biblically permitted to maintain their silence in the face of a public scandal? To be silent about sin is to condone sin. The Reformed leadership needs to take cognizance of the fact that they're setting an example. RC Sproul has set an example that now communicates loud and clear that it's perfectly acceptable for Christians to be suing Christians.

If RC Sprouls' minister friends and associates continue to remain silent they'll be sending a very clear message that they agree with RC Sproul that it's perfectly acceptable for Christians to be suing Christians. The inevitable result will be that many of those who admire those Reformed ministers will follow their example and they'll come to believe that it's perfectly acceptable for Christians to sue Christians. They shouldn't be surprised when one day it's one of them who gets sued by another Christian and the plaintiff uses Ligonier vs. Vance to justify it.

Perhaps these Reformed ministers believe that it's still too soon to speak out publicly, and perhaps they may even be justified in their beliefs. The problem for them is that there are too many troubled Christians looking on who disagree and believe that too much time has been wasted as it is. The continued silence on the part of Reformed ministers is calling into question if any of them can be trusted. As one blogger put it, "This latest scandal has really made me wonder if there are any good ministries out there anymore." It's those kinds of doubts that will cause financial supporters to not just cut off Ligonier but also any other Reformed ministry that fails to speak out against the Ligonier scandal.

Some have suggested that I post the names, addresses, email addresses, and phone numbers of RC Sproul's preacher friends so that they can be contacted and asked what they've done to call RC Sproul to public repentance. After giving the matter much consideration I now agree that, in the interest of accountability, that's probably a prudent thing to do:

Dr. John MacArthur
Grace Community Church
13248 Roscoe Blvd
Sun Valley, CA 91352
phone: 818-909-5500
fax: 818-909-5712
receptionist@gracechurch.org

John Piper
Desiring God Ministries
2601 E Franklin Ave
Minneapolis, MN 55406
toll free: 888-346-4700
phone: 612-435-2401
fax: 612-338-4372
mail@desiringgod.org

Dr. J. Ligon Duncan III
First Presbyterian Church
1390 North State Street
Jackson, MS 39202
phone: 601-353-8316
phone: 601-973-9104
mrb@fpcjackson.org

Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
2825 Lexington Road
Louisville, KY 40280
phone: 502-897-4011
mail@albertmohler.com

C.J. Mahaney
Sovereign Grace Ministries
7505 Muncaster Mill Road
Gaithersburg, MD 20877
phone: 301-330-7400
email form

Mark Dever
Capitol Hill Baptist Church
525 A Street Northeast
Washington, DC 20002
phone: 202-543-6111
phone: 202-543-1224
fax: 202-543-6113
info@9marks.org

If you call or write any of these ministers please show them due respect: "Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren." (1Tim. 5:1) Here's an example of a letter that you might want to send them, or use for talking points if you call them. It might be useful at the top of your letter to include the names of all of them so they all know the others have received copies too:

Dear ____________,

My understanding is that you're a friend and ministry associate of RC Sproul and that you've spoken at some of the same conferences. As you no doubt already know Dr. Sproul's Ligonier Ministries sued a Christian blogger on August 25. That lawsuit was withdrawn "without prejudice" on September 27. What that means is that Ligonier reserved the option of suing Frank Vance again and in fact in an article in the Orlando Sentinel it stated that, "Ministry attorney Daniel Brodersen said Thursday that if the group does find Vance, it may file a new suit."

To date Ligonier has issued two public statements, neither of which offer any apology for Ligonier's unbiblical and unchristian conduct. Regardless of Mr. Vance's allegations and methods I'm far more concerned about Ligonier's unbiblical response and the terrible example they've set and the terrible testimony for Christ that they've been.

As a personal friend and ministry associate of Dr. Sproul's I'm wondering where you stand on all this. Do you side with RC Sproul and Ligonier Ministries and believe that their actions can be biblically justified in light of 1 Corinthians 6:1-7? If not I'd like to know what you've done to encourage RC Sproul to issue a public statement of repentance. If you've already done that then I'd like to know why you haven't issued any public statements yourself. My concern is that your continued silence will be viewed as an endorsement of Ligonier's sinful behavior.

In the unlikely event that you're unaware of these significant events please see the following links:
Ligonier Ministries Sues Frank Vance
Public Statement by Tim Dick
Public Statement by Ligonier Senior Management
Ligonier Ministries: More Lies Exposed By Orlando Sentinel

You should also take note of the fact that on the front page of USA Today, October 3 edition, Ligonier Ministries was prominently mentioned in an article about lawsuits and bloggers. This Ligonier scandal requires immediate damage control and any continued silence by Reformed leaders such as yourself will likely only make things much worse.

Thank you in advance for your concern about this matter and for the godly leadership that I'm confident you will soon begin to publicly demonstrate. I appreciate receiving a timely response to the concerns that I've raised here.

Respectfully,

XXXXXXX

If you've been a donor to any of the above ministries, or you've supported these ministers or their ministries in any other way (purchased their books, attended their conferences, etc.) make that known in your letter or email. Demonstrating a personal connection makes it more likely that your letter will get by the screeners. As you receive responses from these men, please post those responses as comments to this thread, or if a response is very long then email it to me.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

More Ligonier Lies: Exposed By Orlando Sentinel

Newspaper Reports Ligonier Dropped Suit Only Because It Couldn't Collar Vance; Ligonier Tips Hand About Intentions To Refile Lawsuit

World Magazine Blog and Christianity Today Blog have both made passing mention of the Ligonier Ministries lawsuit story, but they have yet to commit a drop of ink to it in their magazines, this in spite of the fact that this story is more than newsworthy. Thank God however for the secular Press who obviously aren't so timid.

Today Orlando Sentinel staff reporter Rene Stuztman wrote a new article published in the Orlando Sentinel about the latest on the Ligonier's lawsuit against me:

Posted September 29, 2006

Sanford -- The Lake Mary religious group that sued a blogger, trying to limit what he could put on the Internet, has dropped its suit.

Ligonier Ministries Inc. voluntarily dismissed the case Wednesday against Frank Vance, who published remarks critical of the ministry and its president, Timothy Dick, on the Web site "Contending for the Truth."

That's because the group couldn't find Vance, so it couldn't officially notify him that he was being sued, something judges require to make sure defendants have the opportunity to defend themselves.

The group tried to find Vance, whom it accused of posting false and defamatory statements. It hired a private detective, companies that specialize in tracking e-mail and Internet postings.

It even sent Vance an e-mail, asking him to disclose his whereabouts, but none of that worked, according to court records.

Ministry attorney Daniel Brodersen said Thursday that if the group does find Vance, it may file a new suit.

Rene Stutzman, Erin Ailworth, Christine Dellert and Kristen Reed of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report.

What a story! It's almost better than a PI novel, Pinkerton Detective Agency and all!

"That's because the group couldn't find Vance" says it all. Nothing about, "We came to our senses and realized how inappropriate it was for a Christian ministry to be filing lawsuits, especially against professing Christians. It wasn't right and it's cost us dearly, especially among our loyal supporters. Regardless of what Mr. Vance has said about our President we regret what we did and express our sincere apologies." Tim Dick and his lying lawyers just blew a great public relations opportunity to show some Christian humility and contrition and instead just tipped their hand that this legal war is far from over.

Filing a new lawsuit is precisely what I expected that Ligonier would probably do, if only they are given the opportunity. This is exactly why I'm not responding to any demands for personal information.

There are several things that tipped me off that Ligonier's intentions over dropping this lawsuit was probably just a ruse:

1. The fact that they publicly announced that the lawsuit had been "withdrawn" when they hadn't even filed the legal paperwork yet.
2. The fact that after publicly announcing that the lawsuit had been "withdrawn" it took them a week to actually file the paperwork.
3. The likelihood that had there not been significant public exposure to their lies over "withdrawn" the lawsuit they likely never would have filed the paperwork at all to withdraw it.
4. The fact that once they did file the paperwork to withdraw the lawsuit they only withdrew it "without prejudice," thereby tipping their hand that they wanted to reserve the opportunity of suing me again.
5. The fact that at the same time that Ligonier publicly announced "having withdrawn" the lawsuit I started being daily bombarded with blog comments and emails from obvious Ligonier shills in what can only be characterized as a coordinated front to obtain my personal information.
6. The fact that a Christian attorney -- we'll call him Jack -- on Tuesday spoke with Ligonier attorney Dan Brodersen and discovered that Ligonier hadn't dropped the lawsuit last week, and hadn't even intended to drop the lawsuit at all. Jack told Brodersen that the lawsuit was groundless and that "it's going to ruin Ligonier. You have a professional responsibility to tell your client to drop it." Brodersen did NOT then say, "I realize that, Jack. In fact, we've already released a public statement saying that we've withdrawn the suit, and I'll be filing a the Voluntary Dismissal with the court soon." Instead, Broderson told Jack, "We haven't been able to serve Vance yet, and if we can't serve him real soon then we'll have to drop it. But we just got a lead on Vance so we might be able to serve him now."

The lies and the cover ups only grow and only continue to be exposed.

Ligonier Ministries has obviously learned nothing from this tragic saga. They're still out for their pound of flesh. They've repented of nothing, owned up to nothing, and learned nothing. They're still not getting it.

Ligonier Ministries still doesn't comprehend how offended most Christians are to see them suing a brother in Christ. Even if they want to now ex post facto allege that I'm not a brother in Christ their lawsuit would still be unwarranted and offensive because it's a horrible testimony for Christians everywhere. Furthermore Ligonier still doesn't comprehend how offended most Christians are that they have repeatedly lied about every single aspect in every single phase of this lawsuit.

As to Ligonier's claim that their attorneys emailed me, that could very well be true. If they did though they never identified themselves, nor did they specifically ask me to "disclose my whereabouts," at least in the conventional sense of that term. However, I do recall receiving several emails from an "Amber" offering to mail me a copy of the lawsuit. She seemed quite eager to obtain my address, but as I explained to her, my present location doesn't afford me the opportunity of readily receiving postal mail. I asked her to scan the case and email it to me. She declined, claiming that her scanner was broken.

I'm predicting that Ligonier's next move will be to call off the dogs who've been daily badgering me for personal contact information. They should already have figured out that won't work. In fact that strategy has just backfired by causing me to be just that much more suspicious. So they'll change the tactic from bad cop to good cop.

Their next move may be to hire a "Christian mediator." It might be an actual bona fide mediator, or it could be just another Ligonier shill. Either way it won't matter. Through the mediator they'll make appeals for "biblical reconciliation" and once I agree to enter into Christian mediation they'll just take the contact information that I'll be obligated to furnish to the mediator and use to file another lawsuit. The problem for me is that if I refuse to enter into mediation it'll make me look bad, but the potential consequences of agreeing to mediate would be far worse. So unless Ligonier first legally promises in writing to never sue me again there's no chance that I'll agree to being setup for another Ligonier lawsuit by a Ligonier ploy for "mediation."

Irrespective, the issue anymore isn't even about brokering some peaceful resolution between me and Ligonier Ministries. The issue is about Ligonier's very obvious and very public sins of suing fellow Christians and then repeatedly lying about that lawsuit. Everything else is just a side-show. Christians are a very forgiving people, if that is they see some indications of contrition and repentance. When will Ligonier repent?

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

Ligonier Ministries Lawsuit: Tim Dick's Public Statement

If you haven't already done so let me recommend that you first read Ligonier Ministries: "Withrawal Of Legal Complaint" as it will put this article in the proper context.

In his Public Statement, Tim Dick says of the Ligonier Ministries, Inc. and Timothy Dick vs. Frank Vance lawsuit (case no. 06-CA-1669-16-K):

"On August 24, 2006 a complaint was filed in a Judicial Court of Seminole County, by Ligonier Ministries seeking injunctive relief because of the significant threats and allegations being made by a "blogger" under the name Frank Vance, whose true identity is yet unknown."

If Tim Dick had any common sense he would have made an attempt to ascertain my "true identity" (I assume by that he means my address, phone, etc.) before he sued me. Nevertheless, as everyone can plainly tell, that lack of identity information didn't prevent him from suing me anyway. Mr. Dick offers no explanation for why he sued a fellow Christian and thereby violated 1 Corinthians 6 with impunity.

"The decision to take this step was extremely difficult."

Yeah, sure Tim. There's just one problem with all that "extremely difficult" stuff. It's called your reputation. You've got quite a reputation for issuing legal threats against potential whistle blowers, especially employees that you kicked to the curb like so much rubbish. You've never found it "extremely difficult" to call up your attorneys and tell them to fire off a letter threatening to sue anyone who rubs you the wrong way. In the year you became Ligonier's President your judicious use of lawyers resulted in Ligonier's attorney bills exploding from zero to $64,350.00. The public doesn't know yet what Tim Dick's lawyer bills are for 2005 because as CFO Tim is way behind on getting the tax returns done.

"The intention of the complaint was simply to respond to the unfounded, slanderous attack of our accuser, and to seek an objective response."

Such a claim is absurd on its face. One doesn't file a lawsuit for an injunction to "respond" or "to seek an objective response." In this case Tim Dick sued for an injunction to completely silence me as a whistle blower in what is commonly known as a SLAPP lawsuit.

"I attempted to resolve this in private, as my beliefs require. Each time I refuted the accusations, he refused to listen."

At no time did Tim Dick "refute the accusations." Let him now produce the evidence in the form of the original emails, or any other documentation he possesses, in which he refuted any of the allegations that I brought privately to him. I have copies of all my email correspondence with Tim Dick. At no time did he ever "refute the accusations," particularly of the most serious allegation that he'd defrauded Don Kistler in the Soli Deo Gloria acquisition. If he had just once ever said, "Frank, you're mistaken. It never happened," that would have been the end of it and I never would have gone public. This wasn't an issue of I "refused to listen." It was an issue that Tim Dick evaded either admitting or denying the allegations. He was responsive and timely in answering many other questions, but on the SDG issue he consistently evaded an answer. He evaded, he stalled for time, and then when I issued him a ten day deadline he immediately filed a SLAPP lawsuit to silence me.

"My denials were then used by the accuser to perpetuate his blog commentary. At that point, I stopped interacting with the accuser, who again escalated his attack, continuing to exhibit, by his public and private conduct, a testimony inconsistent with that of a Christian."

At best Mr. Dick appears to be terribly confused about the chronology of events, and at worst he is once again lying. It appears that this statement is referring all the way back to when he first started emailing me out of the blue, back in May. I found his behavior to be irrational if not bizarre, and completely inconsistent with how the President of a prominent and highly respect ministry should be conducting himself. I soon discovered that Tim has frequently engaged in this same behavior with a number of other bloggers as well. So I took our email exchanges and created an article from them. I find it more than just a little ironic, and certainly hypocritical, that someone like Tim Dick thinks himself qualified to judge my "testimony inconsistent with that of a Christian." But then I should also expect someone like Tim Dick to play the "he must not be a Christian" card. That's the only card he's got to play if he wants to justify suing me while ignoring the biblical prohibitions of 1 Corinthians 6.

"In light of Don Kistler's statement and our concern for the health of the church, I have asked that our complaint be withdrawn."

Why isn't the Kistler statement posted anywhere other than on Challies? Why didn't Ligonier post it on their own web site? Is there a legal reason they're afraid to do so? Why was the Kistler statement posted on Challies on September 21 and then the very next day the announcement was made public that the lawsuit "had been withdrawn"? Is that all just a coincidence? Is the timing of that all just a big coincidence? How very convenient that the SDG fraud allegations will never be able to be examined under by discovery and under oath.

Tim Dick should have thought about "the health of the church" before he sued me, not after. This lawsuit has brought reproach not just upon Ligonier ministries but on the body of Christ as a whole. I've already seen blog comments from unbelievers shaking their heads at those foolish and thin-skinned Christians who will file a lawsuit at the drop of a hat rather than resolve their disputes privately. I hope that Ligonier's lawsuit won't prove to be a stumbling stone of offense, but the fact is that Christians and non-Christians alike are greatly offended. Some are evidently even now offended by the very Reformed theology that Dr. Sproul espouses. In their minds if this is the fruit of Reformed theology they don't want any part of it. As one commenter put it:

"This episode and others have made me rethink the reformed position. There are enough verses in scripture to make me rethink it but mainly because these people think they are elect, they think they can live and act anyway they want? They think they can lie, spin, take donor money to live in luxury? They think they are not accountable to anyone? They have made a mockery of God's Word and don't even seem to see it. They have sown seeds of confusion and chaos...on purpose."

It's hard for me to even know how to respond to that commenter. I've been a Christian most of my life, and I long ago embraced Reformed theology. But I've also seen a great deal of pride in my Reformed brethren, and it saddens me. How we love to study, but when it comes to putting it into practice the orthopraxy and orthodoxy are too often divorced form one another. The best I can hope to do is to tell that commenter "The theology is sound, even if the life of the one who preaches it isn't. The message is still correct even if the messenger is flawed. Our faith isn't in any man, but in Christ alone -- Sola Christos." But it's not just RC Sproul's Ligonier Ministries that's being a stumbling stone of offense. At least one other professing Reformed minister is claiming that it's perfectly acceptable to sue me, and there may be others. But just as significant are all the prominent Reformed ministers who've looked on and said absolutely nothing, challenging nothing, sinning by their silence, and all the while the world looks on in amazement.

"I regret any confusion this may have caused to our constituents, staff, Board of Directors and our friends and colleagues in the Christian community."

The problems that you have caused Tim are a whole lot bigger than mere "confusion." This is called "sin" and you more than anyone else are the responsible party.

"As the President and CEO of Ligonier Ministries I accept full responsibility for the decision and consider the matter closed."

Whoa! Hang on there Tim! You consider it closed? Have you considered that maybe you'd better ask your "constituents" if they consider it to be closed?

If it's "closed" then why was the lawsuit withdrawn "without prejudice"? If it were really closed you would have withdrawn it "with prejudice" so that you couldn't sue me again. Based on that alone I have serious doubts that you really consider this to be "closed." If you really wanted to send a message that you'd learned your lesson -- that you'd repented -- you would have had that lawsuit dismissed with prejudice. Instead you've reserved the right to re-file a lawsuit against me anytime you want, when no one is paying attention, especially me. Maybe next time even the Orlando Sentinel won't be paying attention.

You didn't withdraw the lawsuit Tim because you had a sudden epiphany and were pricked in your conscience and recognized how unbiblical your conduct was. You did it only because you came under withering criticism and you started losing financial supporters in droves. If you could sue me again and keep it all hush-hush I have no doubts that you'd do it in a heartbeat.

You haven't repented Tim, and you haven't even owned up to anything. Accepting responsibility without admitting you've done anything wrong is a charade. You've practically ruined Ligonier Ministries and this is the best contrition you show? All you've done is offer cheap excuses and self-justifications. At best all you've owned up to is causing "confusion."

"I pray that in the days ahead, God will be glorified as we continue to serve Him."

I pray so too Tim, but I can assure you that God isn't being glorified by your self-justifying Public Statement. This is a complete sham and only adds to the evidence that you are entirely unfit to oversee a Christian ministry.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

Ligonier Ministries: "Withrawal Of Legal Complaint"

On Wednesday September 20, 2006 Lignonier Ministries posted a "Withdrawal Of Legal Complaint," as well as a "Public Statement From Tim Dick", on their web site. Two days later on Friday September 22 at 5:27 (EDT) I received an email from Tim Dick which included links to Ligonier's two public statements regarding the lawsuit itself, as well as the alleged "withdrawal" of their "legal complaint" against me. I say "alleged withdrawal" because as of the date of this article the court has yet to receive any paperwork from Ligonier Ministries motioning the court to withdraw the lawsuit.

It's good that Tim emailed me those links because without them it'd be impossible to find those documents. Even though the lawsuit against me is a very public matter they've very carefully avoided drawing anyone's attention to it by not posting any links to those documents anywhere on their web site. Obviously Ligonier is ashamed and embarrassed of what they've done, and they should be.

In a subsequent article I'll address Tim Dick's Public Statement. In this article I'll comment on Ligonier's "Withdrawal Of Legal Complaint":

"On August 24, 2006, Ligonier Ministries filed a legal complaint and a request for an injunction since no ecclesiastical court could be found."

"Legal complaint" is just another way of saying "lawsuit," although for some odd reason Ligonier has been careful to avoid the use of the term, correcting anyone who calls it a "lawsuit." They've also termed their lawsuit an "injunction," again refusing to acknowledge that an injunction is in fact a lawsuit. Additionally, they've also avoided acknowledging that they've sued me for defamation and that they're seeking monetary damages.

The excuse that they sued me because they were unable to identify a suitable "ecclesiastical court" is a sham which in no way absolves them of their Christian duty to not file lawsuits against Christians (1 Corinthians 6). Furthermore, as I've already explained there are multiple Christian organizations readily available which specialize in Christian mediation. Ligonier did have biblical alternatives readily available for resolving this dispute and for them to claim otherwise demonstrates either gross ignorance or blatant deception.

"The filing was an attempt to stem the slanderous and reckless allegations being made about Ligonier and its leaders on the Internet by an individual known as Frank Vance, whose true identity is still unknown to us."

Stemming the allegations could have been easily accomplished had Tim Dick just answered my questions in the negative regarding the Soli Deo Gloria acquisition, "Did you defraud Don Kistler?" Tim repeatedly evaded answering that question, even though we exchanged multiple emails. Had he just simply said, "No, it never happened" then I never would have gone public. Just so Tim would know I wasn't bluffing about giving him a deadline of ten days to correct the SDG issue I posted a comment on August 21 on my blog and also emailed Tim Dick a link to that comment:

"For example something that Tim Dick perpetrated a couple years ago was just brought to my attention (keep those emails coming folks). This is VERY significant news that only confirms that Tim Dick has earned his reputation for being a "shark." This past Friday Tim and I dialogued via email about it. I told Tim about what I now know about how he defrauded a minister. The incident is extraordinarily troubling and if publicly exposed would be devastating not just to Tim Dick personally, but to the entire Ligonier organization. I don't want to see Ligonier harmed. Just the opposite. But I can't in good conscience just stand by and not blow the whistle on a lying thieving con artist like Tim Dick.

"I've communicated my concerns to Mr. Dick along with a proposed resolution. He hasn't got much time. If Tim fixes it then I've committed to not say anything more about it. But I don't give Tim much credit for common sense so don't be surprised if he leaves me with no other choice but to expose it all here. We'll see what happens. Stay tuned."

Tim continued to ignore me and thus he gave me no choice but to go public. He refused to deny the allegations that had been brought to my attention by several men who had first-hand knowledge of what they believed to be an acquisition by fraud of Soli Deo Gloria, a fraud which they blamed entirely upon Tim Dick. Had Tim even once just said, "Frank you don't know what you're talking about. Your sources are misinformed" I never would have gone public. But Tim didn't do that. Rather than denying the allegations he instead used the ten-day deadline as a window of opportunity to SLAPP me. Moving our dispute into the civil courts rather than seeking to resolve it privately as Christians proved to be fatal, not just for Tim Dick personally, but for the entire Ligonier organization. The damage that he has caused Ligonier by his foolish and reckless behavior could prove catastrophic.

As to my "true identity," any such newfound Ligonier excuses obviously didn't hinder Ligonier's ability to sue me. As to these new allegations that I've been operating under an assumed name see my response here.

"The accuser's malicious attacks culminated with the accusation that Ligonier defrauded Soli Deo Gloria, in our recent acquisition of it. This has been categorically refuted by Don Kistler, SDG's founder."

I'll have to reserve comment on the Kistler statement until it can be thoroughly investigated and shown to have actually originated from Don Kistler, and if Dr. Kistler himself did produce it that he wasn't coerced into it. It would be nice if I could say there isn't a cloud of suspicion hanging over that statement, but there is, and I'm far from the only one who's suspicious about it. Among the cloudiness in the Kistler statement is the issue of Dr. Kistler's stroke which allegedly prevented his timely response to my allegations. Yet as of August 20 Dr. Kistler had been released from the hospital and was already publicly posting comments about his recovery. Strokes can be quite serious, but from some accounts Dr. Kistler's health couldn't have been nearly as severely impacted by the stroke as certain Ligonier "senior management" have been leading us to believe. To at least one caller John Duncan described Dr. Kistler's condition as precarious. This has made for an effective cover story as to why it's taken so long for the Kistler statement to be released, but those who are aware of Dr. Kistler's remarkable recovery know that the cover story lacks credibility.

If the cloud hanging over the Kistler letter can be removed then I'll make a point of issuing an apology to Don Kistler. However, no one should expect me to issue an apology to Tim Dick. By refusing to deny the allegations that were brought to me by several credible witnesses Tim Dick brought everything on his own head. Furthermore he could have and should have gotten Don Kistler's statement to me prior to my August 28 deadline, rather than waiting an entire month to arrange for it. Again, everything about the Kistler letter is suspect, but hopefully that can all be cleared up.

"Threats to Ligonier and its leadership have continued to escalate, with the accuser issuing deadlines for Ligonier to answer his non-credible charges. At one point our president was told he had “put a knife to his own throat,” by ignoring the accuser."

If the SDG allegation was "non-credible" then Tim Dick should have just said so. He should have denied the allegations, but he never did. As to the "knife to your own throat comment," I did in fact use that figure of speech, and that's all it was, a figure of speech. Here's what I said in one of my August 18 emails to Tim:

"Tim, you're a bigger fool than I thought. Playing dumb or ignoring me is like sticking a knife to your own throat. You understand perfectly well what I'm talking about, which is exactly why you addressed everything in my email with the obvious exception of the most important issue of all, your theft of SDG by fraudulently switching the contract. Ignore me at your own peril... Ten days Tim."

For Tim to now make an issue of that only underscores how thin-skinned he is, and it's consistent with his suing me for defamation for calling him a "nincompoop."

" Throughout this entire ordeal, numerous emails and posts refuting the accuser were ignored by him."

What emails? I've already gone on the record flatly denying that I ever received any emails of any kind from anyone at Ligonier, Tim Dick or otherwise, "refuting the accuser." As for blog comments, yes I received a number of those, specifically from "Passerby" who claimed to be "Ligonier senior management." However, Passerby refused to give himself any credibility by identifying himself by name or to even privately email me as I suggested he do so that we could dialogue. It was I who sought an opportunity for fruitful dialogue. Passerby repeatedly ignored my publicly-posted offers. Moreover for Passerby to now claim that his rantings could in any way constitute "refuting" is absurd.

"Mediation through ecclesiastical means is always preferred. On at least six occasions, we have sought information from the accuser as to how we might contact his pastor or session. The accuser has refused all requests, publicly scoffing at the notion."

How very godly of them to only now make an appeal to Christian mediation a month after they'd already sued me! Yes, I did refuse to furnish the name of my church and pastor, and I also explained why.

"Having withdrawn the complaint, we ask friends and fellow believers to pray that we will have wisdom as this matter comes to a peaceful end."

That statement was posted one week ago and publicly released two days later. "Having withdrawn" is past tense meaning that as of a week ago it had already been done. A prerequisite for withdrawing a lawsuit is to file the necessary motion with the court so the court can then act upon it. My legal counsel informs me that it would've taken Ligonier's attorneys all of just a few minutes to draw up the necessary paperwork. But to do that it would've first required Tim Dick calling his attorneys and telling them to withdraw the lawsuit. Did that ever happen? Then it would take a day for the mail to arrive at the court, or approximately thirty minutes if Ligonier's lawyers hand delivered it to the court. Ligonier didn't say, "We're going to withdraw the complaint but it might take us a week or three before we get around to it." They publicly announced that it was withdrawn. No doubt the next Ligonier public statement will be all about blaming their attorneys.

The fact that an entire week has gone by after Ligonier's "senior management" publicly announced that the lawsuit had already been withdrawn, and they haven't so much as even filed the paperwork with the court yet, only further undermines the credibility of Ligonier's "senior management." Either they have once again lied, or they are bunglers (and probably both), but neither is befitting for the management of a donor-supported $10 million ministry.

In conclusion I'd assert that Ligonier is in desperate need of a major upper management shakeup. Tim Dick has more than proven that he's unfit to oversee a Christian ministry. He lacks both the ministerial and professional qualifications. Family connections do not a ministry CEO make. But there are others who are complicit in the Ligonier lies and cover ups as well, including John Duncan. They too must go. Ligonier's staff also include at least one who publicly boasts of squandering the salaries they receive, thanks to the financial support of Ligonier donors, on drunk binges and fornicating.

It's time for some major house cleaning. It's time to haul out the trash.

Then there's the matter of the outrageous "compensation" being taken by the Sproul and Dick families, between them over $1 million/year combined. For the Board of Directors to continue turning a blind eye to so many abuses is inexcusable. Just as extraordinary is the silence of RC Sproul himself during this time of crisis. Unless RC Sproul acts swiftly and decisively, and unless RC Sproul himself issues a public statement, Ligonier's credibility will continue to erode. RC Sproul's silence for the past month only sends the message that he fully supports and condones the behavior of his son-in-law.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

More Ligonier Lies: Ligonier Ministries Has "Withdrawn Complaint"

For the past two weeks (and particularly last week), Ligonier Ministries' supporters have lit up Ligonier's phone lines. Most of them had just one thing on their minds: "How can you as a Christian ministry violate Scripture with impunity and sue a fellow professing Christian?" Offended by such unbiblical and unchristian behavior, Ligonier donors not only called in to complain in droves but they also started dropping their financial support.

The initial response of Ligonier "senior management" (Tim Dick, John Duncan and possibly others) was to instruct their customer service reps to tell callers: "There is no lawsuit. We're not sure where that story came from." That of course was a bold-faced lie, and, evidently, few Ligonier supporters bought it, instead declaring they would stop contributing while the scandal continued.

So early last week, under withering criticism, Ligonier senior management backed up, regrouped, and instructed their employees to stop saying anything about the lawsuit. Instead, employees were permitted to say only: "I am not able to comment on that at this time. It would be best if you e-mailed customerservice@ligonier.org." Callers who insisted on speaking with someone were referred to the voicemail of the "frontline manager."

Through it all, at no time did Ligonier Ministries or Tim Dick ever admit that they had filed a lawsuit against me, a fellow Christian. In fact they repeatedly denied that the nature of their actions against me constituted a lawsuit. At best, in their communications to customer service reps, they attempted to portray their actions as something other than a lawsuit by countering that "it is only an injunction," to stop publication of my blog without admitting that an injunction is just one kind of relief requested by a formal lawsuit. Ligonier also evaded mentioning that they have sued me for damages:

"This is an action for damages in excess of $15,000.00, exclusive of costs, interest, and attorney's fees, and for temporary and permanent injunctive relief based upon common law defamation..."

Then, suddenly late this past Friday that changed, or at least some of the story changed. I received the following email from Ligonier's President Tim Dick:

From: "Tim Dick" tdick@ligonier.org
To: "Tim Challies" tim@challies.com, worldblog@gmail.com, "Frank Vance" advancemyten@yahoo.com
Subject: Statement links
Fri, 22 Sep 2006 17:27:37 (EDT)

The following links will take you to public statements from Ligonier Ministries Sr. staff and CEO. Please feel free to post at your discretion.

Public Statement by Ligonier Senior Management

Public Statement by Tim Dick

Timothy A. Dick
President and CEO

Ligonier Ministries
400 Technology Park
Lake Mary Fl 32746

The links that Tim Dick furnished lead to two statements, one from "senior management" and one from Tim Dick. According to Ligonier's senior management they have (past tense) "withdrawn the complaint" against me. So now at least they're acknowledging that they have taken legal action in court against me. Furthermore, they're claiming as of September 22 that it's been "withdrawn."

The fact that Tim Dick waited until after 5 PM eastern time on a Friday to send this email struck me as opportunistic, especially in light of the fact that those links might have been posted two days prior: see "9_20_2006" in the URL (on the other hand it's possible the links were backdated for some reason). Delaying notice of that information until late Friday meant that it would be impossible for anyone to contact the court and verify whether or not the lawsuit had indeed been withdrawn.

Anyone who has to deal with PR issues knows that if you want to bury a story you wait until late Friday afternoon to release it. That results in the least possible news coverage because people are busy with other things over the weekend. Furthermore, Tim's email was sent to only three sites, further limiting its coverage. Additionally, there is no way to find those statements on Ligonier's web site; there are no links to them anywhere on Ligonier's web site, and a search for them by title produces nothing.

Under the circumstances, there is simply no way that I can view the timing of this as mere coincidence. Tim Dick's email has shady written all over it. Given the month-long wait for any public statement from Ligonier about the lawsuit, a couple of other blogs were extremely eager to post the content of Tim Dick's email on Friday, and they did so without making any effort whatsoever to verify it. However, I knew better than to trust a guy like Tim Dick. No, I'd just have to patiently wait until Monday morning to verify if Tim Dick was telling the truth about his having "withdrawn" the lawsuit. Only later would it be appropriate to comment on the other aspects of the Ligonier statements.

Monday has come, and as of the time of this posting it's been determined that the Florida clerk of the court where Tim Dick and Ligonier sued me has nothing in the case file indicating that Ligonier has filed anything with the court asking that the case be withdrawn, nor has the clerk received anything in this morning's mail, nor has anything been deposited at the court clerk's desk where attorneys hand deliver motions and pleadings. Let me repeat: not only did Ligonier and Tim Dick not file anything last week to dismiss their lawsuit against me but the clerk of the court couldn't find any such thing even today. Thus for Ligonier and Tim Dick to say that the lawsuit "was withdrawn" (past tense) is patently false. This is evidence of just more Ligonier Lies.

In fact, Ligonier proved it had no intentions whatsoever of withdrawing the lawsuit at least as late as last Thursday. According to the case file at the court, on September 21 at 8:30 a.m. Ligonier attempted once again to have another ex parte hearing with the judge, specifically on a "Motion For Assistance In Determining Proper Method To Effect Constructive Service Of Process." So as of last Thursday they weren't looking to drop the case at all but rather how to move the case forward more quickly.

These facts are documented and accessible to the public as part of the court's permanent file on Ligonier's lawsuit. In fact the court clerks say that they've been fielding quite a few calls about this particular lawsuit. When I asked about the case this morning the clerk immediately responded, "Ah yes, the world-famous Ligonier Ministries lawsuit. We've been getting calls about this from all over the country. We're all pretty amazed by how much attention this case has attracted."

Adding to the list of Ligonier lies is this new lie submitted as a comment by a Ligonier customer service rep to Jen's Gems that "the lawsuit that you have posted was withdrawn much earlier this week. Vance has not shared this. There is a lot that he has chosen not to share."

As far as my "sharing" information, it's a little hard to "share" things that no one has ever bothered to "share" with me in the first place. It's a lot like getting sued and having the plaintiff lie to the judge and say, "it is impossible to contact him or to serve him with the Verified Complaint or the Instant Motion. Moreover, counsel was not able to provide the Defendant with notice and an opportunity to be heard regarding the request for temporary injunctive relief for the same reason." Ligonier tried to rush the judge to issue a temporary injunction, but they knew I'd object and that any legal objections would only delay what they wanted to get immediately. So they asked the judge to make a ruling without me even having the opportunity to make a defense for myself. That's called an "ex parte" hearing and they lied to the judge in an effort to get it. Thankfully the judge didn't buy it. Ligonier and their attorneys now need to think through very carefully the probable consequences of lying to Judge Nelson.

Speaking of "sharing" things with my readers, I would like to have been able to have "shared" the fact that Ligonier sued me on August 25, but I wasn't able to do that until I found out about it eleven days later, not from Ligonier Ministries but from the Orlando Sentinel. I would like to have been able to "share" with everyone that "the lawsuit that you have posted was withdrawn much earlier this week." There's just one problem. Once again I was never informed, and then when they did inform me it just happened to have been after the court was already closed for the weekend. In coming days there will be much more to "share" about all of this even beyond the fact that the lawsuit was not withdrawn last week as falsely claimed by Ligonier.

The public statements by Tim Dick and Ligonier "Senior Management" contain more lies than the false claim of the lawsuit being dismissed, and I will respond to them in detail over the next few days. I wish I could agree with Tim Dick when he says that he "considers the matter closed." However, nothing about this matter is closed or is likely to be any time soon so long as Ligonier's leadership continue with their lies and cover-ups.

With this latest report Ligonier donors are bound to be even more outraged than they were before. They should know that the Ligonier Board Of Directors is slated to meet sometime in the next week or two. If you haven't already done so you should consider contacting the Board members and conveying your concerns. Don't be afraid to make demands -- since you are a stakeholder the Board is accountable to you. However, let me point out that demanding only the firing of Tim Dick is unlikely be an adequate remedy since John Duncan as General Manager may wind up taking his place. That would be no kind of solution at all, and in fact that kind of medicine may prove worse than the disease.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

Ligonier Ministries Employees Instructed To Lie?

On September 18 I received the following comment posted to Ligonier Ministries Board In the Dark About Lawsuit:

Practicing Attorney said...

Talked with two Ligonier reps today. Talked with the second rep to confirm the story of the first. The two witnesses -- whose names I will keep to myself for the time being to protect the innocent -- said the same thing, so I regard what I report below as confirmed according to biblical standards of evidence: It seems that there was a staff meeting today about your blog and what Ligonier was going to do about it and what staff were supposed to say about it.

The customer service reps were told:
(1) Ligonier is still trying to figure out what is the Christian way to handle it. When asked: Isn't it a little late to try and figure out the Christian way after already filing a lawsuit?

The response was:
(2) There is no lawsuit, and they're not sure where that idea came from. It's only a "injunction" -- kind of a way to ask the court what to do, because blogs are new, and we're not sure what to do. When asked for an official statement from Ligonier:

(3) Told the ministry is working on one. Things are moving so fast... we have to make sure we cover everything in the statement... so we're still working on it. Don't have anything official yet.

When asked who informed the customer service reps of the above:
(4) Senior Manager John Duncan

It appears, Frank, that you have them running and running scared. Who was it that taught the biggest lies are the most effective? Was it Lenin? In any case, the leadership at Ligonier are sinning, and they know it, and they cannot defend it, and they don't want to repent, so all they have left is an effort to hide behind a big lie: there is no lawsuit. The truth, of course, is otherwise, as even the pagan press noticed. Ligonier has filed a complaint against you and a motion for an injunction; i.e., they have sued you.

That Ligonier still won't admit to even what is on the public record tells me that more heads than Tim Dick's need to roll. No wonder the Ligonier board isn't aware of the lawsuit.

Then the next day I received an email from "Joe Lawyer" informing me of a very similar phone conversation that he'd just had with a Ligonier customer service representative. I repost his email here with his permission:

Dear Mr. Vance,

Let me confirm the testimony of Practicing Attorney. The same thing happened to me too. I called Ligonier to find out if they'd ever published anything on 1 Corinthians 6:1-7. "Bob" (I'm using a fictitious name to protect him from Tim Dick's retaliation) told me "No I can't help you with that." I asked Bob if others were calling in and asking to get Ligonier materials on 1 Corinthians 6. He said, "Yes and we've been instructed to just say 'No I can't help you with that'." I asked Bob to explain how Ligonier could think they could be filing lawsuits against other Christians and not be transgressing biblical law? Bob said, "I can tell you that this isn't a lawsuit. It's an injunction. I can also tell you that there's no lawsuit because the blogger hasn't been legally notified."

I thanked Bob for at least admitting that Ligonier had filed for an injunction and then explained that it's impossible to file for a legal injunction without there being a lawsuit. I then pointed out the dishonesty of telling people that because Mr. Vance hadn't been legally served there wasn't a lawsuit. Ligonier's failure to notify Mr. Vance doesn't nullify the suit. I also told Bob that I'd contacted the court and verified that Ligonier had sued Mr. Vance and they hadn't just sued for injunctive relief they also sued for defamation. I explained to Bob that his boss had lied to him and that whether he intended to or not every time he told a caller "There's no lawsuit" he was aiding and abetting a lie. Bob said, "I don't really know much of anything about it myself. I'm just repeating what I've been told to say. Please take what I said as just ignorance. I wish I could say what I think about all this but I just can't."

I asked Bob if he was a Christian. He told me he was. I told him as Christians we need to obey those in authority over us including the boss at work but we can't obey them if what they tell us to do is sin. "What your boss is ordering you to do Bob is to repeat lies and deceive Ligonier supporters. Maybe you didn't understand that before but now you do. Now you can't just say 'I didn't know, I was ignorant.' What are you going to do about it now? Are you going to continue lying?" Bob said, "I wish I were free to answer your questions. I'd like to be able to say what I really think but I just can't." Bob said I should email the customer service manager Jay Ward and tell him my concerns.

Mr. Vance not only is Ligonier Ministries transgressing scripture by suing you now on top of that they're also lying about it and saying they haven't sued you all. This is outrageous and the kind of corporate duplicity I'd expect out of Enron, not a Christian ministry. When I first discovered your web site I thought you must have been some kind of a crackpot but if anything you've only been too gracious to Ligonier. Things are even worse than you've told us. This is corrupt organization and if it weren't for you pulling the alarm I think it'd only have been a few more years and we'd have probably seen another Jim Bakker scandal. It needs to be nipped in the bud now before it gets worse.

I can't support ministries that I can't trust and Ligonier has totally violated my trust. I won't put up with being lied to by Christian ministries. I don't know which is worse, filing a lawsuit against a Christian or lying about it and saying they didn't do it. Thanks Mr. Vance for everything you've done. May Ligonier repent and may God be glorified.

So on top of everything else Ligonier Ministries is training young men and young ladies in the pagan arts of promulgating lies and corporate cover ups. For those who have any lingering doubts about the fact that Ligonier Ministries has filed a lawsuit against me here is the proof (and here's an alternate site as well)

I've received multiple emails from Ligonier fans and supporters asking what they could do. Many have wanted to directly contact Ligonier decision makers but have had no idea how to go about it. Like a lot of multi-million dollar Christian ministries the Ligonier decision makers don't make themselves accessible or approachable, and that only magnifies the accountability problems. I've received multiple reports that Ligonier supporters have been refused the contact information for Ligonier officers and board members, and they're given no assurances that anyone other than Tim Dick will read their mail. So much for accountability.

While it's probably a good idea to contact Tim Dick, or at least cc him on all correspondence, it'd likely be a total waste of time if you were to contact him alone. Mark and Jennifer Epstein know this from personal experience. When confronting Tim Dick he's just likely to say the equivalent of, I don't need your money anyway. Just shut up and go away.

The Ligonier decision makers are the officers and board members. After receiving multiple requests for this information I've furnished their contact information here:

Ligonier Ministries
400 Technology Park
Lake Mary, FL 32746
Toll-free: 800-435-4343
Local: 407-333-4244
Fax: 407-333-4233

Customer Service Supervisor: Jay Ward
email: customerservice@ligonier.org

John Duncan: Senior Manager


Tim Dick, CEO, President, CFO
2741 Deer Berry Ct
Longwood, FL 32779-3071
407-333-4106 (home)
321-299-2615(cell)
email: tdick@ligonier.org


Ligonier Ministries Board Of Directors:

Dr. R.C. Sproul, Chairman Founder & Chairman, Ligonier Ministries, Inc. Lake Mary, Florida
R.C. Sproul
2741 Deer Berry Ct
Longwood, FL 32779-3071
407-333-4106 (home)


Mrs. Vesta Sproul, Director Co-founder of Ligonier Ministries, Inc. Lake Mary, Florida
Vesta Sproul
2741 Deer Berry Ct
Longwood, FL 32779-3071
407-333-4106 (home)


Mrs. Pat Dizney, Director Entrepreneur Orlando, Florida
Pat Dizney
1110 S.W. Ivanhoe Blvd, Apt 31
Orlando, FL 32804
407-841-2264 (home)


Mr. Stephen Levee, Director Real Estate Developer Madisonville, Louisiana
Steve Levee
324 Robinhood Rd
Covington, LA 70433-4763
(985) 809-1717 (home)


Mr. Greg Miseyko, Director Investment Management Consultant, Morgan Stanley Deerfield Beach, Florida.
Gregory Miseyko
63 Little Harbor Way
Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-3606
(954) 596-2111 (home)


Mr. Archie Parrish, Director President, Serve International, Inc. Atlanta, Georgia
Archie Parrish
Serve International
P.O. Box 71716
Marietta, GA 30007
770-642-2449 (office)
http://www.kingdomprayer.org/

As people pass along additional contact information I'll update it here. A combination of letter writing, emails and personal phone calls is probably the most effective method of getting their attention.

The most significant of all decision makers are the Ligonier financial supporters, the "stakeholders" themselves. Think seriously about contacting other Ligonier supporters that you know and informing them. Don't be dissuaded by those who might accuse you of "gossip." By definition sharing your biblically-based concerns with friends over something that's already public information can't be gossip. Ligonier financial supporters in particular have a right to know what it is they're supporting. Do responsible Christians give money to winos and drug addicts which will only further enable their sinful conduct? In the same way Christians should think very seriously about whether they want their tithes and offerings going to an organization to be used for an unbiblical and sinful lawsuit.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

Ligonier Ministries Board In the Dark About Lawsuit

Was the Ligonier Board Of Directors consulted prior to Tim Dick filing his lawsuit against me? Is the Ligonier Ministries Board Of Directors completely in the dark about it's lawsuit that they as Board members bear legal responsibility for? Based upon what's just been reported to me that certainly appears to be the case.

I received an email from a gentleman that I found to be most troubling in its ramifications. With his permission I repost it here. However, he did ask that I not use his name, so I'll just refer to him as Jeff. Jeff raises some significant concerns and where applicable I've linked some of his statements to articles that support what he's saying:

Dear Mr. Vance,

Thanks for shining some light on this Ligonier fiasco. I'm sure I'm not the only Ligonier supporter who's been concerned for a long time about the direction that Ligonier has taken. It all seems to coincide with when Tim Dick became president and it's all been downhill from there.

Over the weekend I tried to call three of the Ligonier board members. I was glad to find those phone numbers on your blog. Two them I only got answering machines for but one I did get through to. I'm not sure if he'd appreciate my repeating his name so I won't. What's important is what he told me and I think it's important that your readers know it too.

I asked him if he thought it was right for Ligonier to be suing a brother in Christ? He said he didn't know what I was talking about. He said he didn't know anything about Ligonier filing any lawsuits. So I gave him instructions on how he could find the story online including the Orlando Sentinel article. I asked him how could a Ligonier board member be in the dark about something so significant that's wrecking Ligonier's public reputation? He said, "We as the board only talk about two or three times a year. The Ligonier office doesn't really tell us much of anything. I guess I'd better make a few calls and figure out what this is all about." He asked me to call him back in a few days when he hopes to have some information about it.

Mr. Vance I've served on some corporate boards including a few nonprofits and I know a few things about how corporate boards are supposed to operate. I know this isn't the way it's supposed to be done but I'll also have to admit that in my experience many corporate boards don't do things correctly. I won't say that what Tim Dick is doing is illegal but what he's doing is a major abuse of the process. CEOs and Presidents of relatively small nonprofits like Ligonier don't go filing lawsuits and especially the kinds of lawsuits that are likely to draw a lot of bad PR, not without first talking to their board members about it. That's why boards exist, to give accountability and prevent Presidents and CEO's from making major decisions that could potentially turn into public relations disasters and destroy the organization.

One of the significant functions of a board of directors is to act like a court of appeals both internally for interceding in significant staff disputes and externally to protect the interests of shareholders. With nonprofits we refer to the donors as "stakeholders." In Tim Dick's case he obviously violated that principle. He bypassed the Ligonier board as his court of appeals and betrayed Ligonier's stakeholders in the process. Stakeholders have a right to know that their donations aren't being wasted on frivolous and expensive litigation. Tim Dick is insubordinate to his board and he needs to be severely reprimanded.

If I served on Ligonier's board I'd immediately move to have him fired and find a new CEO and that new CEO wouldn't just be another Sproul family member. I'd also demand that Vesta Sproul resign as a board member. Obviously she's in cahoots with Tim Dick and she too has betrayed the Ligonier board and the stakeholders.

I think that the Ligonier board itself bears responsibility for the gross mismanagement of Ligonier. A corporate board bears responsibility for governing the corporation that they serve. Corporate boards can and usually do delegate their authority to manage the corporation's day to day affairs to the corporate officers that they hire, such as Presidents and CEOs. They don't give up their governing responsibilities they just delegate them. But they always retain control. Telling a stakeholder like me "We only talk two or three times a year" is inexcusable. In a very real sense the corporate board protects the public from the sorts of abuses that can easily be committed by corporate officers. It's supposed to function as a system of checks and balances. The Ligonier board has failed the public miserably. Each board member bears direct responsbility and if they're not willing to do their job they should resign. If they fail to insist that the corporations officers be accountable to the board then they're guilty of gross negligence and they can be held personally and legally liable for the damages that result from their negligence.

A Christian board of directors bears an even higher responsibility. Not only do they serve the interests of stakeholders they have to go about it biblically. They have to obey not only the laws of the land they must obey biblical laws too. If they're too ignorant to know what the Bible requires then they have no business serving as board members of a Christian organization. I've had to resign from more than one Christian board because my fellow board members were unwilling to hold our corporate officers accountable. If I didn't do that then I could have been held legally liable for the misdeeds of the officers and the negligence of my fellow board members. Corporate boards aren't just supposed to rubber stamp what the CEO and other corporate officers decide to do and what they decide they want to tell us what they've done after the fact.

If corporate officers refuse to hold themselves accountable to their boards and if corporate boards are negligent about holding their officers accountable then it falls to the stakeholders to hold them both accountable. As a Ligonier stakeholder I'm going to do that and I hope every other Ligonier stakeholder does that too.

Thanks Mr. Vance for doing what should have been done a long time ago. This lawsuit against you only proves how out of control Ligonier has become. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help.

I appreciate Jeff for writing to explain from personal experience the responsibilities of a corporate board member, as well as the responsibilities of corporate stakeholders should a corporate board fail to competently discharge its responsibilities. It appears to me that Ligonier's Board is in fact probably little more than a rubber-stamping committee. This lawsuit debacle could have never happened had the Ligonier Board been fulfilling their corporate obligations. This isn't to say however that Tim Dick is off the hook. Tim Dick bears responsibility for keeping his board in the dark about his actions. He should have first gone to his Board to seek their authorization to file this unbiblical lawsuit. RC Sproul bears significant responsibility as well. After all it was RC Sproul who pushed to have Tim Dick hired by the Board Of Directors as President/CEO/CFO of Ligonier, and this in spite of Tim Dick's obvious lack of professional and ministerial qualifications.

It's late for the Ligonier Ministries Board Of Directors to intervene, but it's still not too late. Ligonier's Board needs to immediately take decisive action to rein in the abuses of Tim Dick. The Ligonier Board's second order of business should be to promptly issue a public statement expressing their regret to Ligonier's stakeholders for their governing negligence. In doing these things Ligonier's Board could do much to restore donor confidence. Absent these things Ligonier's support base will probably dry up.

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Please note that Frank Vance's articles are now hosted at Ministry Watchman. New comments are no longer being accepted here.

The Tim Dick Name-Calling Side-Show

Ever since I found out from the Press that I'd been sued by Ligonier Ministries, I've been trying to move the ball down the field and stay focused on the big issues at hand. As far as I can see there's no issue that even comes close to the significance of Ligonier Ministries' blatant violation of 1 Corinthians 6. But of course there are others who'd disagree, and it shows in their words and deeds. Among them there are some who keep attempting to divert everyone's attention to irrelevant side-shows. One such side-show that keeps getting played like a cheap violin is my alleged "name-calling" against Tim Dick.

Some will undoubtedly disagree with me on this but I firmly believe that there's a time and a place for name-calling, and there are plenty of biblical examples to support it. Not that it should be done routinely, or against just anyone. No, I believe such occasions should be uncommon and well thought out.

They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them. Proverbs 28:4

My contending with Tim Dick was planned and calculated to achieve a certain objective. I'd contend that based upon what I already knew of Tim Dick that a little name-calling was the only effective means of smoking him out of his cave. Furthermore the name-calling was fact-based, not ad hominem. I knew that based upon Tim Dick's reputation that he's a very proud man. He only confirmed that to me by his repeated appearances commenting on various blogs where he'd been mentioned, and even on some where he hadn't been mentioned at all.

Proud men can't stand being called names and they're often incapable of just ignoring it. Ignoring it would've demonstrated wisdom and humility on Tim Dick's part. Ignoring it would've put me to open shame, as most people would've just viewed me as vindictive or a crackpot. By responding with a defamation lawsuit however Tim Dick not only demonstrates the magnitude of his own pride, he also demonstrates a spirit of folly.

What I anticipated from the prodding was to receive a very threatening email from Ligonier's attorneys. That in and of itself would have made a significant story, confirming what I've been told by others -- that Tim Dick has repeatedly used the threat of litigation against potential whistle blowers.

What I got instead was even much bigger -- a full-blown lawsuit, bypassing entirely the customary prior threat. So the story is even far more significant than I'd anticipated. Now there can be no doubt in anyone's mind what Tim Dick is made of. The lawsuit is the story, not the name-calling that some have tried to argue was the reason that Tim Dick filed litigation over some alleged "defamation."

There are some who have contacted me and told me that they don't condemn what I've done. Some are even very grateful, especially all the former Ligonier employees. But some also say, "Frank I just wish you wouldn't call Tim Dick names. It detracts from the story." Their concern is that the name-calling could be interpreted as ad hominem, and at least for some even "unChristian." If it were ad hom then I could understand the offense taken. However it's not ad hom at all.

Every name that I've uttered describing Tim Dick's character are names that he's commonly referred to by those who have worked with him and worked for him. Some are even very colorful nicknames, one of which I do regret publishing because of the offense it caused some readers. In the same way that I've alleged that Tim Dick defrauded Don Kistler based upon the testimony of several witnesses, I've also repeated the descriptive names that others have frequently uttered about Tim Dick to describe his shady and disturbing personality.

Producing people in court to testify that they too have used the very same words, phrases, and nicknames to describe Tim Dick's character will be part of my legal defense. Multiple witnesses will step forward to say under oath, "Yes judge, I've many times openly referred to Tim Dick as a ______ and a ______ and a ______. Mr. Vance is only repeating what he's heard a lot of others say." That parade of witnesses is going to get real embarrassing for Tim Dick. It's impossible to defame someone when you're only repeating what everyone else has already said about a guy they personally know.

By virtue of being Ligonier's CEO Tim Dick is a public figure. Public figures are far more open to scrutiny and criticism than private citizens, especially a man who manages and directs an organization that is legally classified as a "public charity" and a "public trust." It doesn't get much more "public" than that. Tim Dick as a public figure has earned a reputation with virtually everyone that he personally deals with for being all the things that I've repeated of him through those descriptive terms. The only reason that I'm being singled out to be sued isn't because I've "defamed" Tim Dick. Tim Dick by his own conduct and reputation has defamed himself long ago. All I've done is brought out what is well known and well established from a limited circle into a little larger circle. But it's now Tim Dick's own lawsuit which has now brought his reputation out into the public eye at large.

Michael Metzler, as usual, has some good observations about this:

On this analysis, I think that we can certainly include someone like Tim Dick in the category of oppressor, if Frank Vance is correct about him. Therefore, some “name calling” can be biblically justified in this context. I think this is important. There is a time and place to speak harsh words towards another Christian. However, I would like to point out another complication in this situation that might mitigate the need for this kind of justification. Vance was clearly using the powers of a Christian investigative journalist. Vance was interrogating Tim Dick. And the interrogation worked. Through the use of prodding name calling, something only a man like Tim Dick would respond to on Vance’s take, Vance was able to not only get Dick to threaten litigation, but to actually file the suit! Vance has thereby proved for us one of his more significant claims about Dick. Interrogation can be risky business, as the movie A Few Good Men shows us; but in the end, if the investigator’s hunch is correct and the interrogation works, then the investigator “get’s off the hook.” That’s the way it works and that is how it should work here. Thus, Vance’s original behavior can be justified through an altered form of a “serrated edge” argument and also independently by the employment of investigative interrogation. Vance smoked Dick out of his cave for the entire world to see; to rejoice in the fact that you know Dick and Ligonier Ministries would file a law suit like this while also refusing the method of how this truth came about does not make sense in this case. A few mild actions of name calling comes with the territory here, and given who Tim Dick is showing himself to be, they have New Testament sanction.

There's a noteworthy exception however to the name-calling which I'll deny having ever said:

"In the past five months, Vance's blog has describ